Daily News, Mon Apr 22

What’s the stoutest record in ultrarunning? I’d go with either Kouros or Fordyce.

Fifty surprising things learned from running around the world.

Meghan Hicks’ MDS race report is in. Check it out.

Big congrats to Ian Sharman (and a tough Brett Rivers) for his win at Mt Diablo 50k. Great race direction and nice spring weather made a wonderful day out there!

Western States now has an official rule on PEDs.

…speaking of PEDs, a new anemia drug will trick the body into thinking it’s at altitude, and in turn, create new red blood cells. Cyclists are already in line to get their hands on it.

Forty four healthy foods under $1.

…and some of those foods are also on this list: Superfoods for runners.

Two weeks ago on this page I asked if anyone has any experience with MAP. I’m not a scientist so I can’t speak to it’s characteristics, and I’m unsure how to separate correlation and causation when talking about starting something new right in the middle of intense training. Howevah. I’ve been using this (expensive) stuff for ten days and see a huge benefit. I feel stronger, I have more endurance, and my recovery time is nearly non-existent. Yes, it’s legal. No, it’s not a steroid. Anyone else have these results?

22 Responses to "Daily News, Mon Apr 22"

jimbo says:

April 22, 2013 at 9:56 am

I would avoid the MAP brand. Owned/Endorsed by a Scientologist linked to Lisa McPherson.
Try the essential amino acids from Beverly Int.
http://www.beverlyinternational.com/products/

Reply
1. Taylor says:
  
  April 23, 2013 at 5:27 pm
  
  Hello, We, International Nutrition Research Center, can verify that we are the manufacturers and producers of MAP Master Amino Acid Pattern and not the above mentioned name.
  
  Reply
Wendy says:

April 22, 2013 at 1:38 pm

I previously commented when you first mentioned MAP on the April 8 post. I suspect that thread has gone cold.

If it works for you, that is great. Never estimate the power of the mind and belief that it will work.

No, after taking MAP for several months, I notice nothing from it.

Yes, MAP is expensive. At 0.50 a tablet, the recommended 10 tablets before and 10 after workouts costs $10.00 a workout.

Just for insurance, I now use an essential amino acid powder I buy in bulk. It is less than 1/10 the cost of MAP. It also contains all 9 essential amino acids not just 8 like MAP. Numerology wise, 9 is a better performance number than 8. Only problem is that it tastes terrible and requires putting the stuff in capsules (tedious) or mixing it in a flavored drink that overpowers the terrible taste.

I suspect that if you are eating well and are consuming adequate amounts and healthy types of proteins and amino acids, than you will not notice much from MAP. If you are unhealthy, deficient and not assimilating efficiently, then you may notice benefits from MAP.

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Dawn says:

April 22, 2013 at 2:14 pm

Many of the runners I coach and myself as well have been using MAP for at least 6 months and see HUGE BENEFITS from using it. It is especially useful as a recovery or injury healing aide.

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Aaron says:

April 22, 2013 at 5:52 pm

In regards to the stoutest records, while both Fordyce and Kouros will unlikely be surpassed any time soon, I think single event records like either of theirs are more likely to be beaten than records which span entire careers. Ann Trason’s 14 WS wins is absolutely rediculous. My money is on that one.

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MJ says:

April 22, 2013 at 6:18 pm

I’d be interested to know more about MAP. Haven’t done much research (from their web site it looks like you’re supposed to substitute it for protein in your diet?). But it looks like it’s for building muscle/strength like for sprinters and bodybuilders. I’m a long distance runner, not sure what it would get me.

Only place I’d ever heard of MAP before you posted last week is the Endurance Planet podcasts when they have Ben Greenfield, their nutrition guy on. Maybe you can talk w/him to find out more.

I think I’d love those results – but they’re almost too good, might scare me a little. What is it really doing, and what are the long term effects/risks?

Please keep writing about it!

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1. eric says:
  
  April 23, 2013 at 7:33 am
  
  Melissa-
  I hate to say I don’t know more about MAP, but I don’t know a lot more. They’re essentially essential amino acids–the building blocks of proteins that our bodies don’t create on our own. As I mentioned, I don’t know if it’s correlation or causation or just the good ol placebo effect, but something has changed.
  
  In my response to Harry, I wrote that I haven’t experimented with other supplements, so this is a new field to me. I first heard about MAP from Lucho (who’s a no-bullshit runner), and I ran it by my wife (who’s a bio-chemist/geneticist) before starting them.
  
  Wendy, below, questions the price of the bottle, and yeah, it’s expensive. I paid $60 (with s&h) for 120 pills. I take 3/day whether I’m running or not. For Saturday’s race, I took 4 before the race, then one each hour. The race went well and I had zero (none, nada, zilch) pain or fatigue the next day. Just as nutritionists tell you to build up on protein to help with recovery, that’s exactly what this is doing.
  
  Reply
  1. MJ says:
    
    April 27, 2013 at 7:24 am
    
    Eric – You say you felt stronger in your race and had no pain/fatigue the next day. (awesome) Hope you can still report the same!
    
    Some followup questions:
    
    Do you feel better on an everyday basis, in regular life outside of your runs too?
    
    Do you perceive any increase in overall energy level?
    
    My MAP should arrive by mid-week, looking forward to trying it though always a bit nervous introducing something new into my system. Have listened to some of the podcasts and read a bit more. More research to do.
    
    thanks!
    
    Reply
    1. eric says:
      
      April 28, 2013 at 7:21 am
      
      “Do you feel better on an everyday basis, in regular life outside of your runs too?”
      
      Yes, I feel better and have more energy. Note on my runs: I had a 50k yesterday and took the same amt I did at my 50k the week before, but bonked hard yesterday. The course and I didn’t get along and my body is pretty shot right now, so who knows what the issue was. The recovery, however, is the same as last week. I have zero soreness from yesterday, which is awesome.
      
      “Do you perceive any increase in overall energy level?”
      
      Yeah, though I wouldn’t know how to quantify it nor would I be able to differentiate between perceived energy and actual energy, ya know?
      
      I’m anxious to hear your take on it. Again, the recommendation is for something like 10/day, and I’m only taking 3/day, so I’m certainly not getting all that I could get out of it. In the week leading up to Bryce Canyon, I’ll take the recc and hope for the best.
      
      Reply
      1. MJ says:
        
        April 28, 2013 at 7:36 am
        
        Eric – Thanks so much for replying. I am so glad to hear it’s got even wider benefits, tho training/racing/recovery would be enough reason to take it.
        
        If I feel like I have more energy (perceived) that’ll be good enough for me w/o quantification of it, I think. The performance & recovery benefits you talk about are probably quantifiable enough as markers. As for your (bummer!) bonk, I guess some days that happens. Body is such a system of systems, hard to always pin down what makes the change – and as you said, may have been course. Fact that recovery still so good does seem to suggest something else at work. I fall into the <120# range, so may start w/ half of that rec & see what happens.
        
        Now I'm *REALLY* looking forward to getting my MAP in the mail and getting started. How long was it before you noticed a change?
        
        I will definitely keep you updated. Thanks again.
2. Dawn says:
  
  April 23, 2013 at 7:38 am
  
  MAP is made up of amino acids which are found in all proteins. Map just has a more complete profile which is why it is more effective than just eating chicken or tofu. So it is no more illegal than eating chicken. What makes it helpful for an endurance athlete is that the amino acids in map are in a combination which allows it to be more readily absorbed by the body thus used more efficiently to repair muscle damage which is how it benefits ALL runners not just sprinters. The proof is in the product. Try it for yourself. Personally consider it my edge so the less my competition knows of it the better:))
  
  Reply
Harry says:

April 22, 2013 at 8:00 pm

I think you are bumping up against the margins of PEDS here. OK, got it,0 it’s legal. But that is a definition set by lawyers and bureaucrats and is not necessarily in keeping with the spirit of trail running. It’s not food. Maybe it’s not FDA regulated, but clearly this is not food. It’s not in any natural form. Your body, your conscience, your call. But in my opinion it smells like someone looking for an extra- organic advantage. What are you trying to prove, and to whom? Why?

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1. eric says:
  
  April 23, 2013 at 7:24 am
  
  Harry, I’ll ignore the spirit of your response but do my best to address the issues you brought up.
  
  I’m neither a scientist nor an attorney, but amino acid supplements available at health food stores don’t seem illegitimate (or PED-like) to me. You’re right, there’s a lot of gray area, but these don’t seem to fall into that sphere. I take ibuprofen occasionally on runs, I abstain from caffeine during the week so I can reap the benefits of that compound during races, and neither of those make me feel like I’m “cheating.” Again, it’s up to the individual I guess.
  
  In terms of the “spirit of trail running”, what does that mean? We’re all supposed to rely on nuts and berries and water? Are gels allowed in your interpretation? Sports drinks? S-caps? If not, then hey, you’re a lot more consistent to me.
  
  In defining PEDs, mine is a simple, and admittedly sophomoric approach. If it’s illegal under USADA (or is close enough to count) and/or involves a needle, it’s a PED. Again, simple and severely under-educated in that field, but that’s how I see it.
  
  Aside from the aforementioned ibu, the only other “pills/supplements” I’ve ever taken for running are fish oil pills (stopped after a few days of burping pier) and soy protein drinks, though I’m not sure either of those count.
  
  Please feel free to reply and let me know what I’m not seeing.
  
  Thanks,
  Eric
  
  Reply
  1. Harry says:
    
    April 23, 2013 at 4:23 pm
    
    Yeah, I re-read my comments and they were pretty terse. Sorry for the way that came off; that’s not how I meant it. Back in the 80s I was racing a lot of USCF and it seemed like everyone was looking for an advantage. Supplements were the first stop. Animal Paks were big and then guys started branching out from there. Unfortunately there is no regulation in the supplement industry and a lot of anabolic agents and stimulants found their way into the “proprietary formulas” that manufacturers guarded closely. Lots of guys reported the same kind of results that you are seeing. And no one really knew what was really going on because we were just a bunch of Cat 2 chumps who never got tested. So I guess my question is, do you know what you are taking? The MAP website is pretty cryptic. I’d be interested to see someone who has been using that stuff for a while take a test, just to make sure its clean. (Frankly, I’d like to see all of our top tier ultra runners voluntarily submit themselves for testing several times a season, just to help keep the sport clean.)
    
    The USADA web site http://www.usada.org is a good place to get some basic education on supplements and check out the “high risk supplement” list. It’s an eye opener.
    
    The “spirit of trail racing” that I’m referring to is the notion that everything takes hard work and disciplined nutrition/recovery. It’s sort of anti- the idea that you should be looking to find an advantage in a bottle of pills. Maybe that’s just my romantic idea of the sport.
    
    S-Caps, gels and electrolyte drinks are foods and labeled as such right on the packaging. And frankly I prefer the little salt packets that I swipe from McBurger to S-Caps; the absorption seems to be much quicker. And they are cheaper.
    
    Hope this clarifies my point. Again, sorry for the edge to the first message. Be careful with that stuff and make sure you know what you’re doing. It can be a slippery slope.
    
    Reply
Trail Laddy says:

April 22, 2013 at 9:24 pm

Hey nice finish at Diablo, not too shabby mate!

Reply
Wendy E says:

April 23, 2013 at 12:49 am

You came 7th – I’m super impressed! Tell us more about the race?

Reply
1. eric says:
  
  April 23, 2013 at 7:26 am
  
  Thanks Wendy! After I completely fell apart at Lake Sonoma a week earlier, I needed some redemption and I got it! I felt great all day, had strength on the ups and downs, ran the rest hard, and had nutrition and hydration dialed in. One of those days where everything just “worked.” I’m certainly hoping for the same feeling during this Saturday’s Folsom Lake 50k!
  
  Reply
  1. Dawn says:
    
    April 23, 2013 at 9:40 am
    
    Question Eric, Where did you come up with daily and race day dosage for MAP?
    
    Reply
    1. eric says:
      
      April 23, 2013 at 9:55 am
      
      I’m too cheap to take the recommended dosage so I thought I’d try less and see if anything happened. As for race day, I read that Lucho (Tim Waggoner) took 5 before, then one per hour.
      
      Reply
Brian says:

April 23, 2013 at 9:00 am

Great job Eric! Sorry I missed you on that beer. I was on the bottom 4 but at least I was able to finish my first 50K on Diablo!

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MJ says:

April 24, 2013 at 3:55 am

I’d even take a placebo effect (hey, results, right?) but would wish for a cheaper one. 🙂 I’m sure if I added up cost of all the stuff I take/have tried, it’s not cheap either, but would be great to have something that worked….and it sounds like you’re getting fantastic results in terms of no pain, feeling strong, recovering well (I’d be thrilled). Glad your wife (cool CV!) looked at them before you took them. Have to look for Lucho’s comments on MAP and do more research. I know he does Endurance Planet podcasts sometimes too.

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MJ says:

April 24, 2013 at 4:00 am

Haven’t listened to this yet, but here’s an EP podcast focused on MAP:
http://www.enduranceplanet.com/ask-the-doc-special-your-guide-to-understanding-master-amino-acid-pattern-map/

they have a lot that at least mention MAP, here’s the search:
http://www.enduranceplanet.com/?s=MAP

Reply

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