Trail Running Daily News | Wed, Jan 8

Should poles be banned in ultra trail races? Damian Hall and Joe Gray present both sides.
Can’t really tell if this discussion is focused on trails or ultras. Very different answer for different distances.
Personally, I like the idea of “poles must be kept away in your pack until x miles” to alleviate start-line stabbings.

How many shoes do you have piled up in your closet/garage/trunk? Here are a few options on recycling your old running shoes.

Looks like Kilian doesn’t have the points to run UTMB.
Alright, I understand the argument that “Fair is fair. He didn’t get the points, he shouldn’t run.” However…if UTMB wants to stay at the top of international competitive ultra mountain races, they need to find a way to let in the best ultra mountain runner of the past decade.

Jim Johnson writes an incredible post about feeling fatigued on a few runs, having respiration problems, and ultimately hearing docs discuss his advanced directive while lying in the ED. Wow, crazy story!
Always a good reminder to listen your body.

Once again, hats off to all the RDs and team coaches out there. What I deal with on a small scale (literally and figuratively) is nothing compared to what you all must have to deal with on a regular basis.

Daily Mail: Canadians are choosing cannabis over beer in large numbers.

TrailRunMag: Findings from a study that challenge some conventional wisdom: Women are faster than men at 200 milers, our collective average pace has slowed significantly, and the nations with the fastest ultraunners are not the US, Spain, or Japan.
I’d love to read a good challenge to this study. Anyone have a link or response?

Are women’s abilities at ultra-endurance due to increased levels of estrogen? Here’s the science.

ABC: A bill in Tennessee would force students to compete as the sex assigned at birth.

UROY: Addie Bracy and Mark Hammond come in at #8 on Ultrarunning Magazine’s UROY Countdown. Makes sense.

Kevin Beck: (NUC) No Ultra Content, but a story about visiting an old running friend amidst a serious alcohol-induced breakdown. Excellent writing focused on a serious subject. Give it a few minutes and read the whole thing.

Treeline Journal: Maybe a few out of touch editors don’t like stories that involve pooping in an Italian recycling bin mid-race, but I sure as hell do.

14 Responses to "Trail Running Daily News | Wed, Jan 8"

Petteri Jokela says:

January 8, 2020 at 7:33 am

Qualification to UTMB: Elite athletes do not have to gather UTMB points, they can get access based on their general ITRA performance index (for men>880) and Kilian has 952 at the moment.

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1. eric schranz says:
  
  January 8, 2020 at 8:22 am
  
  I wonder what his comment was about then. Strange, right?
  
  Reply
2. luke says:
  
  January 9, 2020 at 7:08 am
  
  this isn’t true. you still have to have the points regardless of ranking/index. The high index score gives you a “elite” free entry and lottery bypass. If you have a score of say 800 you can bypass lottery but still pay entry fee.
  
  Reply
Leslie O'Dell says:

January 8, 2020 at 8:11 am

I’m partly with Joe Gray on the pole thing. I’ve also nearly been jabbed in the eye by them and had difficulty maneuvering around them. I do think they should be banned in races, but I wouldn’t go as far as Joe and say ban them altogether. Poles can be considered an unfair aid in races since they allow one to use upper body assistance. If you are unable to complete a race without the use of poles, one might question whether they should be doing the race in the first place. But I’m no real expert on the matter.

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1. eric schranz says:
  
  January 8, 2020 at 8:23 am
  
  I see your points. And FWIW, though Joe is the king of sub ultra mountain races, I would’ve like to read the opinion of someone who regularly participates in longer ultras where poles play more of a role.
  
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Martin says:

January 8, 2020 at 8:45 am

The Elite status allows an athlete to enter the race without passing through the lottery draw. The top elites, above 880 points which Petteri mentions, have free entry. But they do have to have acquired the necessary points. It is written quite clearly on the registration rules.
Killian does not have the required points and therefore, as he says, cannot therefore register.

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Joel says:

January 8, 2020 at 9:32 am

Regarding use of trekking poles in races – Eric, I think the discussion is far more applicable to Joe’s type of races than Ultras. Particularly in Europe I think its fairly common for runners to use poles for short/steep race distances that Joe competes in. In that style of event runners are far more dense, and thus prone to getting in each other’s way. I think having to holster your poles for the first xx km is fair and a good solution.

Personally I think when the discussion spills over into longer races it loses almost all of its momentum – sure s**t happens, but I’d love to see a poll of how often someone has been stabbed, tripped, or obstructed in a *meaningful* way that negatively affected their race or the ultimate outcome. I think plenty of us can share stories of people w/o poles getting in our way, tripping us up…etc.

Also, I think the erosion impact is overstated. Sure, is it an incremental form of wear on the trail? Probably. Let’s keep perspective though, we’re talking about poking the ground with a metal tip rarely deeper than 1/8 of an inch, and with a surface area a fraction of the size of a single lug on our trail shoes. If you’re running a race where people’s poles or tearing up the trail at a concerning level, I’d be far more worried about what your shoes are doing in that same environment.

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trailrunninghd says:

January 8, 2020 at 10:24 am

Regarding the pole discussion: I would rather say that this is a fight between two traditions: Mountain running (where poles are not allowed for the majority of races) vs. trailrunning, where most races allow to use poles. Poles can be a huge help particularly in downhills (it saves your knees) and in slippery conditions – not so much regarding running efficacy but regarding running safety. On the other hand, many runners don’t act with appropriate care when it comes to the use of poles in crowded trails. And there is an environmental impact of poles, as they increase erosion. This is why the Transvulcania race has restricted the use of poles in certain parts of the course: http://transvulcania.es/en/walking-poles-regulation/

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trailrunninghd says:

January 8, 2020 at 10:42 am

TrailRunMag: There are many shortcomings of this “study” – and it is a clear example why one should use data with great care and understanding.
One example: The runner become slower. Why is that? It is not so much because the runners have become unfit or more unfit runners are entering the races, it is because of the exponential growth of UltraTRAILrunning. Which is – in its nature – slower than ultraruns on a flat or more even surface. As the authors use all data of a certain year, the increase of the relative percentage of trailraces on the total amount of races is a reason for the “slowing” of runners.
Second example: The same is the case for the finding, that South Africans are the fastest Ultrarunners in the world. If one knows the running tradition in South Africa, Ultrarunning largely is running on roads – e.g. Comrades or Two Oceans. The same holds true for rank 2-5 of this list – all countries, who have big, traditional races that are not technically challenging: Sweden (Ultravasan), Germany (Rennsteiglauf), Netherlands (Run Windschoten; furthermore the Netherlands are flat as a pancake) and Great Britain (Thames Path, London 2 Brighton etc.)
Third Example: The authors state that there is no difference in average speed between women and men in ultraraces and that women are even faster than men in races >200 mile. They also state, that there is no change of average speed with age. This is a big mess. First, they do not look into DNFs – and this is why they get a selection of runners where there are much less differences in speed when comparing gender or age groups. I have analyzed several races and have found differences for the average runners, even for the back-of-the-pack runners. You can find these data here – unfortunately, the article is in German: https://trailrunningnordwand.blogspot.com/2019/06/faktencheck-einfluss-von-alter-und.html

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1. eric schranz says:
  
  January 21, 2020 at 6:54 am
  
  Paul from RunRepeat emailed me his response as he’s having trouble posting it here for some reason:
  
  Here was my response that won’t post for some reason: Trainrunninghd, we 100% agree with you on the fact that this data does not mean more unfit runners are entering races, had the link been to the full study (https://runrepeat.com/state-of-ultra-running) you could see a bit more of the findings. What we assume is happening is more first-timers and amateurs are signing up for races as a participatory event, not a competitive one. As the numbers on any race increase, overall average times tend to go up since it’s not more elite runners entering but those that want to try one for fun.
  
  This study did not separate road from train ultras, ut just looked at any race over 26.2 miles, there were over 15M data points and not a lot of race organizers denote trail or road in the data they publish so it would have been a manual job to separate the two, and this could be one reason for the performance of SA, but overall, there’s a good mix of road and trail all over the world so these averages should be somewhat even. SA being a possible exception with Comarades being the largest race.
  
  As for the last point, you can’t really take DNFs into account since they are not accurately recorded in the data. You can’t compare the pace or mileage of DNFs like you can a finisher, so the data looks at finishers only. Ultimately a DNF shouln’t be added into the data since it would inherently skew the data as well.
  
  I think this is all really good feedback and we thank you for offering it!
  
  Reply
Paul says:

January 8, 2020 at 1:14 pm

Tracy Hoeg writing at irunfar has a good article on male/female performance distances in ultrarunning. She states, “Despite popular belief, women do not on average perform better than men at ultramarathon distances. Not even close, really.”

https://www.irunfar.com/2018/09/women-rule-female-physiology-in-endurance-running.html

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Mark says:

January 8, 2020 at 5:39 pm

Heres a thought, how about racers participate in events that occur on days of the week other than the weekend so runners like Joe Gray can hammer on the trails with no fanfare or the clutter the normal runner presents to the non-inclusive types that are seeking wins. Joe Gray seems to feel poles restrict him from exploiting his gifts. Nice. That’s exactly where the sport should go, lone wolf pursuits. Maybe Hoka should get behind this movement? I wonder if they are all about diminishing returns? Are shoes the only tool of the trade trail elites should use? Black Diamond need not apply to the ultra/subultra trail running niche. It’s for the fit, young, and those with orthopedic challenges need not apply. Thanks Hoka for sponsoring a great ambassador. Noted.

Maybe instead of a slow poke like me a few other voices of folks that draw a paycheck from endorsements should chime in. This issue of pole use is simply an expression of smugness. And I am a fan of Joe Gray but I do draw a distinction from the standpoint that talent does not confer wisdom. When the rest of us working slobs are earning a paycheck to pay for Hokas, Newtons, Salomon, Nikes, (need I go on) or other gear from Ultraspire, Camelbak, etc. I’ll remember that next time I stroke a check. It takes a lot to grind out miles and my running longevity at 58 is a direct result of being savvy not smug. Before Jamil Curay was born I was running up Echo Canyon trail in the 1970s in the Valley of The Sun (people in AZ will know this reference) so I have some miles in the short and long form trail running disciple well before showcase races were a thing. There is an abundance of arrogance masquerading as environmentalism on display in this outlook. Not to mention how impractical the broader concept is on its face. I’m fairly certain on non race days any trail is going to see a variety of unregulated trekking pole use or other carnage causing gear. If it is that much of an issue my world view is “Man up”…if you need to pass an elite and are fearful of your vision do some problem solving but sniveling about poles and an outright ban is pretty dramatic. An absurd. Or just run for the fun of it. I do.

But when it comes to pole use in races there is another point that crops up. I don’t know some of detail relating to the UTMB accidents that impacted some other pros of late but if I remember correctly some seem related to falls. I wonder what Tollefson and Lickteig think about this? Did poles contribute or did it prevent a fall from something more severe. Okay, I get it, these folks are participating in longer events and (as stated earlier in previous comments) this might be a shorter distance issue or mitigated by a lead off buffer before poles can be put into play. But I don’t think that is the position stated. I’m not so sure that is the anti-pole use stance has much wiggle room to it. Agreed, I am pretty heavy handed in bashing his view so realize I hope Joe stays healthy enough to race and make a name for himself for as long as he can. I genuinely do, but my god, give me a break. The more people get out and use poles, shift the culture to moving with a purpose instead of living like sloths, the more likely people will want to preserve these spaces where we all benefit. Even those folks that get paid to travel, compete at the top of the sport and wear equipment paid for by consumers. Adjourned…

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David Witko says:

January 9, 2020 at 8:47 am

“If you are unable to complete a race without the use of poles, one might question whether they should be doing the race in the first place.”

Not sure I would agree with this statement above from Leslie. Hmmm … If you are visually impaired and unable to complete a race without the use of a guide, one might question whether they should be doing the race in the first place? Oh, and if you are unable to complete a race without the use of your prosthetic leg, one might question whether they should be doing the race in the first place? Come on …

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Mitch says:

January 9, 2020 at 10:34 am

I’d agree with race regulations limiting pole use. I wound however argue the impact of a runner stepping off trail to avoid a hiker with poles. A pain yes but far less impact than a team of SAR volunteers with a litter essentially 3 wide carrying a heavy load down the trail. Some serious damage happens on litter extractions.

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