Ultra Trail Running Daily News | Tuesday, Jan 9

Marathon Investigations turns their attention to ultra guy Kelly Agnew and retroactively DQs him from Across the Years. The evidence does not look good for Kelly at all. I’m hoping there’s an explanation that we’re not seeing…

The countdown has begun. Ultrarunning Magazine‘s UROY top ten list starts with numbers 10 right this way.

Is your running in a rut? Here’s a goal: Train for a new PR in the good ol’ mile. (Somehow I think this would be a letdown for me. 4:17 ain’t happening for this 42 year old!)

Weather getting dreary in the Northern Hemisphere and looking for an awesome reprieve? Check out the Tarawera 100 (new distance this year) going on next month in New Zealand. (No financial interest in this race…I just think RD Paul is a hell of a guy and I’m living vicariously through those who get to run it!)

Mario’s Morning Shakeout.

Really interesting: Looking for a job in conservation? Here’s a list of myriad ways to get involved (and paid!)

This article about a relatively new runner taking on a hundred mile trail ultra in Alaska got me thinking. She describes herself as an “adrenaline Junkie” and I’ve heard that description before for people who participate in our silly sport, but is it really accurate? Aside from the starting line and finish line, does trail running give you an adrenaline boost, or is that term more appropriate for BASE jumping and other high-risk activities. Of course this is all semantics, but I’m curious if you agree with her (and others) description of our sport.

Excellent article on pain management and what we can learn from it as it relates to ultra trail running. Read it.

Somewhat related, and equally important to your success on the trails or tarmac: The negative impact of outside stresses on your running.

If a coach trains a team of 10 runners all the same, why do some perform better than others? Genetics, individual makeup, of course, but now what? What actually causes those different outcomes?

40 Responses to "Ultra Trail Running Daily News | Tuesday, Jan 9"

WA_Runner says:

January 9, 2018 at 8:00 am

WRT the Agnew thing, that sucks. Nobody likes a cheater (allegedly), but there’s also something a little gross about a guy who spends his precious short time on earth chasing down and reveling in the shortcomings/misdeeds/failings of others.

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1. eric schranz says:
  
  January 9, 2018 at 8:08 am
  
  Yeah, mixed feelings on it all.
  
  Reply
  1. Korey Konga (@koreykonga) says:
    
    January 9, 2018 at 9:07 am
    
    When I read anything from that marathon investigator guy, it makes me feel like I ate bad seafood and I haven’t slept enough.
    
    Reply
2. Nick says:
  
  January 9, 2018 at 8:11 am
  
  Since my previous post was deleted (and I won’t challenge Eric’s decision to do so here), I will simply second WA_Runner. We should really stop feeding the urges of this guy. Please, at least don’t make this your headline, Eric, your site is worth much more than this.
  
  Reply
3. dude says:
  
  January 9, 2018 at 9:26 am
  
  What if he were chasing down PED users? not sure why this is bad.
  
  Reply
4. Doug says:
  
  January 11, 2018 at 6:48 am
  
  It’s “gross” that someone is out there exposing marathon and ultra cheats? Not sure why people are taking issue, I mean this is a sport, and sports have rules in competition. Agnew deserves all the ridicule, DQs, and shameful exile coming his way (unless he can refute all this evidence). The core of running is honesty, with yourself and with competition – I wholeheartedly support anything that exposes any cheats amongst our honorable tribe.
  
  Reply
SingleTrackGuy says:

January 9, 2018 at 8:14 am

The Agnew thing is not the least bit shocking, though the audacity of the timed race cheating is. Most people can’t wait to see which top notch pro might be doing something (though if that person is liked it seems that where there’s smoke the fire is ignored) but there is in my opinion far more cheating (cutting courses, ped) going on in that sub-elite to midpack range. That stuff normally doesn’t get headlines, it’s not eye popping but it’s just as harmful

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Stewart Gunyon says:

January 9, 2018 at 8:26 am

I applaud Derek for busting cheaters. Agnew appears to be a serial cheater. How is this any different from PEDS? Sure his actions don’t affect me personally, but how about the people he finishes ahead of or his sponsors?

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1. Ben says:
  
  January 9, 2018 at 9:18 am
  
  I’m friends with Kelly on FB and had no idea about this history until revealed. I have a note out to him to ask what’s up with the story and investigation and will report back here if he responds.
  
  Reply
  1. Ben says:
    
    January 9, 2018 at 12:16 pm
    
    Kelly deleted the posts on his FB wall and changed his settings so his friends can no longer post to his wall.
    
    Reply
2. Chris says:
  
  January 9, 2018 at 10:08 am
  
  Agreed. Not sure why people are turned off by what Derek is putting out. These are people flat out cheating the system and in turn us as runners. If anything his website and investigations should be looked at as a deterrent to such behavior.
  Keep on doing your thing Derek and keep linking good articles Eric.
  Cheaters are cheaters and forfeit their right to not be called out.
  
  Reply
  1. WA_Runner says:
    
    January 9, 2018 at 11:08 am
    
    Perhaps the difference in how me and you (and others) view the situation rests in how seriously we take ourselves and, by extension, our running. Running is something I do to bring happiness and wellness to *my* life. If some shady folks out there need to cheat in competitive races to feel good about themselves – that’s got very little to do with me. I understand the points about the people he “beat,” and sponsors, but it’s all just not that important to me. To each their own. Happy running.
    
    Reply
BWC says:

January 9, 2018 at 10:03 am

Derek Murphy is a great resource and the Kelly Agnew case proves it. Murphy has detailed his methodology many times and he doesn’t just go after random people that miss a timing mat. Kelly’s case gives me heartburn because I used to follow his posts in the runner’s world forum and on his blog and even decided to enter Rocky Raccoon based on his race report from the prior year.

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khaifoo says:

January 9, 2018 at 10:41 am

There are many “types” that this sport attracts and holds on to, but I don’t think “adrenaline junkie” is one of them.

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scottywk2 says:

January 9, 2018 at 11:10 am

I’ve had a pretty public debate with marathonInvestigation over the past year. My argument boils down to the fact that public shaming is a far greater social ill (with a bigger ick factor) than cheating in races. My other concern is the internet pile-on that it causes long before the victim responds…and what if the accusation is wrong….and why are people so excited to share and shame this person? It’s just Shadenfruede Inc. in my book. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t support cheating and I think it’s great if a RD finds out and DQ’s someone. Heck, pay Derek to help you find them. But everyone has grabbed a torch and said harmful things about this person all over social media in a matter of hours. I put myself in his shoes and feel compassion. I imagine how people would feel if this person did something extreme in their state of sickness or sadness and how bad we would all feel. Because he’s a human being just like us, and public shaming and humiliation are, well, inhumane. I think most people that do wrong are more sick than evil. But that’s just me.

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1. Chris says:
  
  January 9, 2018 at 11:24 am
  
  and I think your response is part of the problem. Always want to blame the “sickness” or something other than the person who is making these decisions. Nothing wrong with some shaming or humiliation when those persons actions deserve just that. I think there is more evil out there than you’re willing to admit.
  
  Reply
  1. scottywk2 says:
    
    January 9, 2018 at 11:29 am
    
    If kindness and compassion is any part of the problem I’m happy to be guilty as charged.
    
    Reply
  2. Stewart Gunyon says:
    
    January 9, 2018 at 11:29 am
    
    Actually Scotty (if you know him at all) is pretty aware of evil.
    
    Reply
  3. Sebastian says:
    
    January 10, 2018 at 4:21 am
    
    Totally agreed. I don´t see how Kelly ( “the victim”..really?) should be excluded from public shaming when he was more than happy to receive all the kudos, thumbs up and virtual claps on the back time after time. He put himself out there – let it rain on him now. And if you think about it: Derek Murphy probably knows that he will held by the same standard, that this kind of public humiliation will be on him if his accousations are wrong.
    
    Reply
2. Korey Konga (@koreykonga) says:
  
  January 9, 2018 at 12:24 pm
  
  Perfect, Scotty. Keep being you.
  
  Reply
3. Justrun says:
  
  January 9, 2018 at 2:23 pm
  
  This does not seem like a single mistake made while exhausted in a long race. If there’s a pattern of this behavior, and active soliciting and acceptance of accolades and kudos for “winning” by cheating, the fall from glory can and perhaps should be as hard. The internet pile-ons do get extreme nowadays, that genie ain’t going back into the bottle, but the solution there is not to stay silent about such situations. What I’d rather see is active policing (if possible) of the internet trolls and not let them get out of hand. I guess I’m in the “if you did the crime, you gotta do the time” camp. Where is the compassion for the people affected directly by such behavior?
  
  Reply
4. Jeremy says:
  
  January 9, 2018 at 2:45 pm
  
  Publicly shaming cheaters is not “schadenfreude”. It’s simply justice, and a deterrent against even more people trying to cheat (which, in case you weren’t aware, robs people who put in an actual effort from being recognized properly for their achievements).
  
  I have no sympathy for cheaters, and frankly, I don’t have a lot of respect for those who do. You’re going to have a hard time convincing me that the people Derek exposes as cheaters are the *victims*.
  
  Reply
  1. Nick says:
    
    January 9, 2018 at 6:37 pm
    
    since you seem concerned about justice, have you heard of “due process”‘?
    
    Reply
    1. Jeremy says:
      
      January 9, 2018 at 9:04 pm
      
      Yeah, it only applies to the American legal system, there’s no right to a trial here. Someone literally witnessed him spending 7 minutes inside the porta potty and going back across the mat, and the RD disqualified him. Case closed.
      
      Reply
5. Mike Bonnell says:
  
  January 10, 2018 at 8:39 pm
  
  Scotty – well said & I’m with you all the way.
  
  Reply
Peterson says:

January 9, 2018 at 2:43 pm

“Shaming” is a tired and overused word. With the exception of some speculation about the White Rim FKT, the Agnew investigation presented a careful account by a witness, and published race results. Kelly and Jo were friendly regulars on the western USA ultra scene and they will be missed. I’m hoping for but not really expecting an explanation from them. The Leadville missed times are fascinating and bring up a whole slew of questions themselves, like (1) How in the world did Leadville still award a 2015 finish when 13 mats were missing including two crucial well-staffed ones at Twin Lakes (mile 40 and 60)? Even without mats, there are hundreds of volunteers+crew+spectators at Twin Lakes who would have observed Kelly coming through, if he did and heck, volunteers still write down bib numbers there and they track runners via radio over Hope Pass both directions (2) and the logistics involved with getting shuttled somehow from Half Pipe to the Hope Pass climb without being noticed. The return trip from Winfield (mile 50) would be somewhat easier to Uber out of there with, on the first few miles of the dirt road there.

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Arvid says:

January 9, 2018 at 4:32 pm

I have listened to a couple of podcasts with Derek, and I have to say that I support him in what he does. He has quite clearly stated that he isn’t interested in going after the person who makes a mistake in the moment or a single episode of poor judgement. He is after the individuals who ‘take’ from the sport and benefit malevolently in some form. This includes taking sponsorships, which means someone else actually deserving DOESN’T get them, or taking spots on starting lists that have been fought for legitimately by perhaps hundreds of others. This does affect the sport and all of us; it is not a victimless crime. The individuals he has ‘outed’ have shown a pattern a consistent and deceptive practices. If this is a ‘sickness’ on their part, then they probably stand a better chance of resolving it if they are caught and then have an opportunity to try to heal. Many people follow the adage that it’s only a crime if you get caught, and won’t change their pattern until that happens. To me, shaming is about the public flogging of someone for something they have no control over or that is perhaps not considered fully socially appropriate (yet). This is not the same as being found out to be repeatedly deceiving and cheating an entire community.

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1. BWC says:
  
  January 10, 2018 at 6:00 am
  
  Amen! From following Derek’s website since the beginning, his big posts usually highlight targets that are conspicuous for certain reasons such as profit or some sort of enhanced standing from their dishonesty. He also typically gives the “targets” of his investigations a chance to give their side.
  
  Reply
Nick says:

January 9, 2018 at 5:22 pm

The level of hostility and uncritical endorsement of the worse methods of cheating busting/exposure is astounding. I’m seriously considering not visiting URP anymore if this is the reflection of our community. No one is saying cheating is good or should go unpunished. But the inference from cheating is bad (because x, y, z) to endorsing Marathon Investigation methods is pretty shoddy. It’s like saying [crime X] is bad therefore any form of sanction is acceptable.

I’m sorry Eric, but as I said URP is worth more than this cesspool and I no longer feel comfortable following a site that apparently attracts so many defenders of these practices.

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1. WA_Runner says:
  
  January 10, 2018 at 8:16 am
  
  So you no longer feel comfortable being presented with opinions that differ from yours…. How 2017 of you!
  
  Reply
  1. Nick says:
    
    January 10, 2018 at 12:40 pm
    
    Not quite what I said. How unnecessarily snarky of you.
    
    Do you like LetsRun.com? Do you like toxic comments? Don’t you think there are better ways of using one’s time than others, including by engaging with different opinions that are being defended on sound, rational terms?
    
    I think Marathon Investigation is a cesspool, regardless of what I think about cheating (which—needless to say, except folks don’t seem to understand—I do not condone). To the extent that I’m being served this toxic soup every now and then here, I don’t feel great wasting my time anymore. There are much better ways to feel uncomfortable in a productive way. This is not one of them.
    
    Reply
Guy Cheney says:

January 9, 2018 at 8:12 pm

Eric is publishing the news here. This is news. Do I wish ultrarunning was all Bill Dooper and Dave Mackey comeback stories? Yes, I do. But it’s not.
This guy is not some back of the packer who desperately wanted a buckle and took a short cut. He had sponsors and stole wins from other runners who should have had the credit for those wins. He profits from being a coach, and certainly some of his credibility as a coach comes from his #fakewins. I don’t wish Agnew ill. No one should be sending him hate mail. I also agree with Kummer’s comments about kindness and compassion. But being kind and compassionate doesn’t require us to ignore or disregard cheaters. Cheating that was planned out in advance. Cheating that has been going on for years. Whatever qualms one might have with Murphy, he spotted a guy cheating here.

Having said all that, I hope Dooper gets out of the hospital soon and that Mackey crushes it at Black Canyon.

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1. Lee Smith says:
  
  January 9, 2018 at 8:41 pm
  
  This.
  
  Reply
2. Nick says:
  
  January 10, 2018 at 6:48 am
  
  Let RDs do their job and official bodies investigate and sanction if necessary. Let’s find better ways to detect cheaters. And then this will be news worth sharing. The MI dude doesn’t deserve this much attention.
  
  Reply
3. RBC says:
  
  January 10, 2018 at 6:52 am
  
  I don’t have a problem with Marathon Investigation shining a light on Kelly Agnew’s apparent cheating because he held himself out as a public figure and benefited directly from his ill-gotten success as a runner. He celebrated the victories on his blog and deprived other competitors of the personal satisfaction to which they were rightfully entitled. He also traded on his running results for financial gain in the form of sponsorships and coaching clients. This is not a case where Marathon Investigation has outed some anonymous, middle-of-the-pack runner that took a shortcut or two to get a buckle they didn’t deserve.
  
  This might just be another instance where ultrarunning is experiencing some growing pains regarding the direction of the sport and how it should be covered by the nascent ultrarunning media. I understand that treating ultrarunning like a professional sport, and covering it as such, is anathema to folks who want to focus on community and personal striving. My sense is that ship has sailed (or that it is in the process of sailing, anyway). The sport is becoming more of a professional undertaking at the higher levels, and with that change it’s probably inevitable that more of the discussion is going to focus on competition and competitive disadvantages that follow from all forms of cheating.
  
  This issue of compassion toward individuals who cheat at sports feels unique to ultrarunning. I certainly haven’t read many opinion pieces that are critical of the media for covering the doping scandals of Lance Armstrong or Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens or any other athletes who have been implicated in wrongdoing. Which isn’t to say that those instances were handled decently or humanely. It’s just an observation that this discussion is profoundly different from other discussions about cheating among professional or semi-professional athletes.
  
  Reply
Mark says:

January 9, 2018 at 9:16 pm

If someone basically commits fraud for personal gain I.e. gains sponsorship or compensation for material goods like shoes, race gels by misrepresenting his credentials or “short cutting” his distance covered, I think that elevates this to a level which is not only the about principle being debated here, it violates a law/statute I would think. I realize there may be a behavior/compulsion at play here that is influenced by something that requires understanding; the motive for cheating is for someone else to work through though in my opinion. It is the good of the order at large which is a stake.

The fact remains, if this individual is taking deceitful behavior to a level that is promoting his achievements to the detriment of others that is unacceptable and worthy of calling out. I think someone has suggested there should be consequences at some level and that should be non-negotiable, bottom-line, so if this individual has established a trend that a reasonable and ethical person would not engage in, well, children will listen…

There’s an ex-SEAL, Don Shipley, that calls out frauds that wear SEAL tridents for esteem or worse. It puts the frauds on notice and whatever gains they had are exposed to the light of day, so it serves a purpose and honors the folks that earned the right to wear that insignia. Same deal in my book. It is just plain wrong, so why not point out that type of action, willfully carried out, to curb it not only in the individual, but for anyone else engaging in it or someone contemplating it. That might seem like a petty example but frankly when someone gets a pass for claiming something that is merit but not legit through deeds or based on accomplishment it becomes the recalibrated new standard and we become a bit weaker if that creeps into our day to day living.

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scottywk2 says:

January 10, 2018 at 7:38 am

I think a lot of you are confusing compassion and humanity with turning a blind eye. No one is saying that. I’m opposed to cheating and if discovered I think being disqualified is a just result. What makes me feel ick are 10,000 ultra runners posting, sharing and commenting that “this guy is a fucking piece of shit” hours after the article drops, prior to a response from Kelly (if there ever is one) and all based on hearsay. I consider what happened to him yesterday “Public humiliation.” Most civilized countries outlawed it as a form of punishment decades ago. Because it’s yuck.

Cheating is bad. Public humiliation is worse.

Reply
1. Jill Homer says:
  
  January 10, 2018 at 10:17 am
  
  I agree with Scott. However, that is one aspect of the current social media climate that is not going to go away. One could draw the comparison to that woman who wrote a flippant but racist tweet before a flight, only to find her entire life was ruined by the time she stepped off the plane. The punishment did not fit the crime, and yet, there’s no way to prevent such things from happening.
  
  It’s difficult to say what’s right. Journalism about a compelling topic is not a crime. Outing an innocent person in this manner would be a crime, if there’s enough evidence to bring a defamation suit. But I think everyone agrees that social media has most of us thinking twice about how we conduct ourselves in public. No one can escape it, anymore.
  
  Reply
2. Nick says:
  
  January 10, 2018 at 12:41 pm
  
  THIS. THIS. THIS. It’s that simple. Thanks.
  
  Reply
Mike Bonnell says:

January 10, 2018 at 9:22 pm

In my humble opinion….
…the issue ISN’T that cheating is okay, or justifiable or excusable. The issue ISN’T that we should try to ‘understand’ the cheater. The issue ISN’T that society should be “soft” on the person that cheated. Rather it’s the “ick-factor” (as others have so aptly described) of people acting as judge jury and executioner. Everybody claims that we have to “consider” those poor people that were directly affected by the cheating…. well, me thinks that they are about the ONLY ones that have a right to pile-on with the recriminations and the hating (if it’s necessary).

We can all read the story…think what we want…maybe even discuss it broadly with our buddies or within our running communities. But, what’s the point in trying to shame the alleged cheater publicly? How is it anybody’s business other than those cheated and the race RD’s that must deal with the issue?

This ‘ick factor’ reminds me of the old high school days. Remember those fights that would sometimes develop? Though I never thought that fighting was an appropriate way to settle anything – I could accept that two people decided to settle things that way. What I couldn’t accept and what I always despised were the onlookers, screaming, “fight! fight! fight!” – adding fuel to the fire. They always seemed like such cowards to me, deriving pleasure from the pain and misery of others. The ‘ick factor’.

If you were one of the people that were directly affected by this cheating (if such was proven beyond a doubt) then scream loud, and publicly if you feel that you need to do so. If you’ve not been directly affected by this person – absorb it if you will….discuss it (with the aim at improving the system) if you wish. But don’t get onto that cowardly bandwagon of shaming somebody “just based on principle”. Few people are perfect and beyond reproach in their daily lives…. think about your own imperfections before casting stones….

Reply

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