Ultra Trail Running Daily News, Wed, Oct 5

Ultra Trail News From Around the World

And BOOM. Just like that, voting for UROY became a lot less interesting. The ultra trail game has changed. Here’s Jim Walmsley’s Strava data from yesterday, and here’s a synopsis from Nico Barraza at Competitor: “He shattered the previous (Rim to Rim to Rim) Fastest Known Time set by Rob Krar (6:21:47) in 2013. That means he averaged 8:27 per mile over a trail route that includes more than 20,000 feet of vertical change, including a 5,000-foot ascent over the final 7 miles to the finish at the South Rim.”

Interesting: When religion and fitness unite.

Hey! A pretty good list: The 20 best colleges for ~~hikers~~ trail runners.

Good perspective: Rethinking the DNF…Did Not Fail.

OK, in the wake of the “road vs/and trail” conversation, this type of discussion seems far less likely to happen with the trail crowd. Am I right, or totally in my own world? I like running trails and road equally, and not just for the terrain: They each have distinct feels, and that’s what has drawn me to this ridiculous sport for the past 25 years.

Be sure to check out our latest podcast with Dylan Bowman, where we talk about his Ultra Trail Mt Fuji race, the Japanese running culture, how he scored a sweet sponsorship with Red Bull, and why it isn’t smart for public figures to jump into the political debates.

That episode was sponsored by the Broken Arrow Skyrace. You heard a lot about it last year, now’s the chance to sign up. June 16-17th in Squaw Valley. Site right here and video right here.

…and after my gig last year as the finish line announcer at Broken Arrow, I have a new respect for the attention and endurance that job requires! Here’s a (surprisingly good) interview with the guy who covers the Ironman World Champs in Kona. Favorite quote: I love success stories in any way, shape, or form. When somebody goes through all kinds of trials and tribulations to get there, that’s what makes me teary-eyed, because they persevered and they pushed through the bad times to get to the good.

With few exceptions, domestic ultra trail races have been sponsored by shoe and apparel companies, and large road marathons sponsored by financial institutions. That changed when an India-based tech company became the title sponsor of the NYC Marathon. Will other non-MUT companies take an interest in our world, based on the success of the TCS sponsorship?

And something that DBo mentioned in the interview was that he’d been training more consistently than ever. Here, David Roche explains the importance and how it can improve your trail and ultra game.

Here’s a new 100 mile stage race in Revelstoke, BC. Looks gorgeous. I’m anxious to get my first stage race behind me, then assess whether or not the format is for me.

Station Note…I’ll be asking for help to help curate the Daily News while I’m in the Himalayas (Oct 19-Nov 1.) If you’re interested, please shoot me an email at [email protected] and include “Daily News Help” in the subject line. Good chance to put your own spin on the News and highlight your area. Familiarity with WordPress will be very helpful. Thanks!

23 Responses to "Ultra Trail Running Daily News, Wed, Oct 5"

Andy R says:

October 5, 2016 at 6:53 am

Another good one. What did he say that made me laugh? “Psyched up to hurt myself” 🙂Reference

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OldGoat says:

October 5, 2016 at 6:56 am

Jim Walmsley’s FKT of the Grand Canyon is absolutely amazing, but I gotta say FKTs are not always a good thing. FKTs have their place in our sport, but the GC is not one of them. Over the last 10 years, I’ve done about a dozen R2R2Rs and miles on other Canyon trails. I’ve seen a definite souring of attitude towards runners by Park administration and other Canyon users. There’s no way to run 42 miles of crowded trails in 5:55 and not piss off some other hikers, Park Rangers, or mules! The ultrarunning community needs a discussion on where FKTs are acceptable and where they are a detriment to other trail runners.

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1. eric schranz says:
  
  October 5, 2016 at 8:31 am
  
  That’s a fair discussion to have. I’ve actually never been to the GC so can’t comment personally, but it’s important we respect all trail users and promote a healthy interaction.
  
  Reply
  1. Dan P says:
    
    October 5, 2016 at 9:15 am
    
    I get that others can get irritated. That doesn’t mean it should be banned or not done. I get irritated by slow drivers in the left lane. Doesn’t mean it’s going to stop happening. National parks and trails are for all of our use. Trail running is no better or worse than hiking or mule trains. It does not damage the park or trail. He did it on a Tuesday during the school year. I don’t think you can be much more courteous than that. Whether a person hikes the canyon or runs it fast is not up for someone else to decide. It is the individuals choice. I run on crowded trails with bikers, hikers, and equestrians all the time. It is very rare than anyone is pissed off. I do my best to slow down and say hi. If they are pissed that is their problem. Frankly I don’t care how the park administration feels, they are there to work for us and preserve our park and make sure it isn’t ruined for future generations. They are not their to enforce speed limits on foot travel.
    
    This entire debate reminds me of when skiers complained that snowboarders were going to ruin the world.
    
    Reply
    1. eric schranz says:
      
      October 5, 2016 at 9:50 am
      
      I agree, and that’s why it comes to just using common courtesy and common sense when sharing the trails with other groups. What’s the alternative? A speed limit? A restriction on two feet off the trail at any given time and Park Rangers being converted to race walking referees?
      
      Reply
    2. Doggalo says:
      
      October 5, 2016 at 8:41 pm
      
      While I agree with some of Dan P’s sentiment, I have to disagree on one crucial point. The park administration is not there to work for us. They are there to work for the “welfare of the park” which usually means catering to either the majority or those that invest the most financially in the park. Trail runners and FKT-ers are a very small minority in the Grand Canyon and a financially insignificant group in the eyes the park administration. If push comes to shove, the MUT community will be on the losing end of the battle.
      
      Reply
      1. eric schranz says:
        
        October 5, 2016 at 9:48 pm
        
        I’m curious what the Rangers could/would do to restrict FKT attempts. I’m not arguing whether or not they should, just what tools or rules they have available to control users’ movement and cadence.
      2. Dan P says:
        
        October 6, 2016 at 11:40 am
        
        I disagree. National Park administration are federal government employees. They work for us (US taxpayers and people that pay entree fees), not those that invest the most in parks through donations or grants. This is not a public corporation that has activist shareholders. They are under the umbrella of the department of the interior. They are stewards that are charged with ensuring the parks are in good shape for future generations.
        
        Our Mission
        The National Park Service preserves unimpaired the natural and cultural resources and values of the National Park System for the enjoyment, education, and inspiration of this and future generations. The Park Service cooperates with partners to extend the benefits of natural and cultural resource conservation and outdoor recreation throughout this country and the world.
Tim Tollefson says:

October 5, 2016 at 7:12 am

I’m continually surprised with the portrayal of “road vs/and trail”. Many things written are unlike my 14 year experience on the roads. Interestingly, one thing that does stand out is a greater amount of public boasting in the trail world.

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1. eric schranz says:
  
  October 5, 2016 at 8:23 am
  
  And that’s why I question maybe it’s just me and my own weird perspective.
  
  This whole thing started with the Herron/Holt discussion, and I should have probably just left it there.
  
  Reply
  1. Mike H says:
    
    October 5, 2016 at 8:31 am
    
    Is their a link or details of an actual “Herron/Holt discussion?” What I’ve seen thus far is vague passive-aggressive references which seems to me to be the textbook definition of gossip.
    
    Reply
    1. eric schranz says:
      
      October 5, 2016 at 8:59 am
      
      Hardly gossip, but yes, admittedly pretty silly.
      This whole thing centered around a discussion on Facebook that addressed the appropriateness of boasting and comparing races and how to respect the assumed ethos of MUT running. The thread was deleted by Conor Holt (Camille Herron’s husband and coach), but was screenshot for perpetuity. Mr Holt asked me to give him a call after my “commentary” last week, and I did so. That conversation was recorded (with his knowledge) and I stand by everything that was said about him and his attitude.
      
      Reply
      1. Mike H says:
        
        October 5, 2016 at 10:04 am
        
        Thanks for the reply. I think you are not off-base in suggesting some noticeable trail vs. road differences in ethos; for example, the idea of the winner cheering and chatting with the last runners is part of ultramarathon lore, but wouldn’t be usual at the end of a big city marathon. Like yourself, there are many that enjoy both types of events. But, as a whole, I find them to be either mostly similar, or that trail running also has a number of quirks not found in road running.
        
        One of those quirks is drama! Whether it’s overly-detailed race reports, obscure FKT’s and niche records, or “what-we-had-here-last-week.” Usually, you link to sources, so we would have wanted to see the thread, and had names, to make a proper judgment. (E.g., I don’t have an idea even based on your description if Conor deleting the thread is a “Bad Thing” or not, without context). Gossip is “casual or unconstrained conversation or reports about other people, typically involving details that are not confirmed as being true.” It doesn’t have to be false, just unconfirmed.
        
        Your description last week was just noticeably uncharacteristic in not having any specific details.
  2. Nick says:
    
    October 5, 2016 at 5:57 pm
    
    Eric, indeed: your own perspective. That’s why you’re not making friends now. You took your own perspective to hold across a whole MUT ‘community’ (assuming there’s even a well defined community). You spoke as a (self-proclaimed) representative of that ‘community’, while pitting it against another (ill-defined) ‘community’. As Tim Tollefson and many of the other runners you admire speak to: there is no such thing as well defined, distinct road vs. trail communities. Many of the fastest trail runners today come from the road (cf. Nike), and these guys do not tend to boast more than others about their achievements. Quite the contrary. These communities overlap, share some common rules and principles, differ in some respects, not in others, and most importantly fare better and worse than the other on many different scores. There is no principled way to compare one and the other — or there is, it’s called smug snobbery, but I don’t think that’s what you were aiming for.
    
    Now, regarding the Herron/Holt tempest in a teapot. You and others on social media were right to balk at the poor taste and manners. I personally am no fan of hers. But none of this has anything to do with roads vs. trails. It’s has to do with character traits. Herron is fast, but maybe she’s just not a great person. No need to call her out on that. No need to scapegoat her for things that are inaccurately blamed on a so-called road culture. Especially when she once was your guest. Especially when you consistently elevate competition, self-confidence (cf. Zach Miller), and other less praiseworthy attitudes on your own blog and podcast.
    
    All that being said, the road sucks: it hurts, humbles and crushes you. And it makes for terrible instagram pictures.
    
    Reply
    1. eric schranz says:
      
      October 5, 2016 at 9:42 pm
      
      Nick,
      Thanks for your response.
      
      That’s exactly what this is: my own perspective. That’s what the Daily News is, that’s what the unedited banter at the end of each podcast is, and that’s all I can give when I respond with my own honest–and often passionate–remarks. Sometimes it makes sense and sometimes I listen to or read my words again and bristle at how they came out or really try to reflect on where my (sometimes contradictory, often admittedly confusing, EDIT: and I’m sure fueled by my regular viewing of the LetsRun message boards) persuasions come from. That’s the risk I take with sharing my opinions and life experiences on the site, and if that makes me a smug snob, so be it I guess. I’ve never claimed to speak for anyone but myself and like you, still see a healthy difference in trail and road cultures. Again, many of those differences highlight one discipline, while other differences highlight the other and often, they blend together like you described. Sometimes they don’t.
      
      My wife complains that I HAVE to have an opinion on every subject. I suppose that’s a personality trait that isn’t usually restricted to just my personal life, as I’m quite comfortable sharing my views and thoughts about which aspects I personally prefer from each loosely defined scene and I find no need to apologize for those. I will tell you that “boasting” is not my biggest problem with people at all–there’s more to it, and I think the other runners’ comments in the FB discussion described those undesirable traits well.
      
      And come on, I’m the first person to relish the fact we’ve got a new batch of fast roadies pushing the pace in the MUT scene! It’s awesome and I’ve got hundreds of hours of recorded material to show my excitement about them blending into the MUT scene. Regarding the Herron/Holt issue: Camille’s not a bad person, and I am a fan of her running style, but after speaking with her coach/husband (post FB and post “commentary”), I have a different opinion of her attitude than I did prior and won’t be discussing the issue further.
      
      (And I’ll disagree that the road sucks. It’s a great equalizer and fun to red-line it close to home sometimes.)
      
      Alright, done defending myself for the night. Good discussion that I’d rather be having over a beer, and once that’s certainly making me think a lot.
      
      –eric
      
      Reply
      1. Nick says:
        
        October 6, 2016 at 6:05 am
        
        “And come on, I’m the first person to relish the fact we’ve got a new batch of fast roadies pushing the pace in the MUT scene! It’s awesome and I’ve got hundreds of hours of recorded material to show my excitement about them blending into the MUT scene.”
        
        > I know, and that’s exactly why I was sort of surprised. Honestly roadies are among my favorite trail runners (Laney, Tollefson, Boulet, Canaday).
        
        “And I’ll disagree that the road sucks. It’s a great equalizer and fun to red-line it close to home sometimes.”
        
        > I was being tongue-in-cheek. I love the road and spend much of the year training/racing on roads. My “the road sucks” remark was meant to express a sort of awe and respect for it. It does hard things to you silently; the trails treat you well (granted, not always) and yield nice pictures. Also, I can’t stand talk of “connecting with nature” and “finding oneself on the trail”.
scott says:

October 5, 2016 at 10:15 am

I wave to every single runner I ever pass along with most walkers/hikers.
Maybe it’s the Tennessee in me, but this feels like satire: “Does he ever acknowledge female runners as they cross paths? He was emphatic: Hell no. He’d never want to unintentionally make someone uncomfortable”
What a strange world that would be to live in.Reference

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scott says:

October 5, 2016 at 10:19 am

Re: Dartmouth

The AT literally goes through the middle of that town (Hanover). It was actually an English (?) teacher from Dartmouth who started the homestay and trail magic network there because the town doesn’t have any hostels.Reference

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Mike M says:

October 5, 2016 at 1:58 pm

Running the usually very populated trails in the Oakland Hills I make eye contact, genuinely smile and say “hi” to female runners I pass alone on the trails – the eyes being windows to the soul, I hope they see I’m not a crazy person and can keep enjoying their run. Also, I think growing up in the Alaska Bush it was ingrained to acknowledge another human when one came across them out on the trails (though usually we were hunting game trails rather than running).

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1. eric schranz says:
  
  October 5, 2016 at 9:45 pm
  
  I’m the same way, but have a habit of saying “good morning” to everyone, regardless of time of day.
  
  Reply
Tim Root says:

October 6, 2016 at 5:46 am

Not running, but definitely ultra related:

http://marathonswimmers.org/forum/discussion/1513/sarah-thomas-81-8-mile-swim-in-lake-powell-utah-arizona#latest

As I write this, Sarah Thomas is 45.5 hours into an 81 mile swim attempt. She’s estimating 55-60 hours to finish.

Live tracking: https://track.rs/ssthomas/

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Geoffrey Alonso says:

October 6, 2016 at 7:44 am

To me if you are trying to declare on surface better than the other then you are doing it wrong. Get out, move, explore, be healthy, find your reason. I don’t care what you run/walk/hike/limp/crawl/bike/prance/whatever on. Do stuff, have fun, enjoy life, sweat a little.

Reply
Kelsie Clausen says:

October 6, 2016 at 10:04 am

Where the F is Cal Poly or UW on that list?! I guess it’s still a good kept secret 😉

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