Ultramarathon Daily News, Mon, Jan 9

Ultramarathon Daily News

Justin/IRF break down the weekend ultramarathon results, including Stephanie Howe’s awesome overall win at Bandera.

One question I have: When a race volunteer mis-directs runners the wrong way, is it considered the runner’s “responsibility”? I ask because of a tweet sent out yesterday post-Bandera by USA Ultrarunning:

Bob Shebest, who also wen off course, had dropped out. Both runners admittedly were responsible for the error. #bandera100k #USATF.

— USA Ultrarunning (@USAultrarunning) January 7, 2017

I wasn’t there so don’t know particulars. Any insight or thoughts?

A dry (booze, not rain) January can make you a better athlete. I’m doing it right now and am surviving, despite having a cooler full of delicious beer staring at me every time I open the door.

Scientific American takes on barefoot running.

Caroline Boller’s interview with Ian Corless from her 50 miler AR.

Next time I’m in Hawaii I’m doing this. Running up Haleakala volcano on Maui.

Maybe domestic RDs can take a cue from how Two Oceans handles bib selling. Seems like a simple process, right? (My guess is that RDs will have a different opinion.)

Belgium may be a small country, but it’s influence on the beer world is ginormous. Here’s a breakdown of all the micro/nano breweries opened in 2016 and what beers they’re making. Saint Lazare’s triple Saison sounds particularly enticing right now.

Good stuff: Five things winning ultramarathon runners do.

Two senators (an R and a D) write a bill that would make certain outdoor gear and programs tax deductible by considering them part of medical expenses. (Link fixed)

Site news: Get ready for a slew of new podcasts this week. Jamil Coury. Mike Wardian. Alicia Vargo, and more!

38 Responses to "Ultramarathon Daily News, Mon, Jan 9"

Rob goyen says:

January 9, 2017 at 5:08 am

It was a spectator not a volunteer at bandera.

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1. eric schranz says:
  
  January 9, 2017 at 5:12 am
  
  Ah, if that’s the case, then yes, I understand. I read a few times that it was a race volunteer.
  
  Reply
Kurt Schilling says:

January 9, 2017 at 5:09 am

Two senator’s link is belgium beer.Reference

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1. eric schranz says:
  
  January 9, 2017 at 5:16 am
  
  fixed. thanks.
  
  Reply
  1. Jamie says:
    
    January 9, 2017 at 7:34 am
    
    Can we get the beer link back? 😉
    
    Reply
    1. Jamie says:
      
      January 9, 2017 at 7:36 am
      
      Oh wait, must be the one above. Phew.
      
      Reply
Scott Towle says:

January 9, 2017 at 5:21 am

I’m still trying to figure out how they went the wrong way. It was the second loop. It’s pretty hard to go the wrong way out of that aid station, even if you weren’t paying attention. And going back the way you came in means you would be running against traffic, which is almost non-existent on that course, minus the very short lollipop loop, which was a new configuration this year. Even still, it was the second loop. They’d been through everything already.

I can’t place blame, as I wasn’t with them when it happened, but I just don’t understand how it happened.

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Justin says:

January 9, 2017 at 5:27 am

The spectator was trying to help out but he didn’t know where the course went. I studied the maps in detail leading up to the event so when he tried to direct me the wrong way, I told him no.

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1. JEC says:
  
  January 9, 2017 at 5:36 am
  
  This! Front of the pack runners must take some (all) responsibility for knowing (or at least being familiar) with course, particularly at major/critical junctures.
  
  It’s a fair question to ask though, I appreciate that you’re responding to a USATF tweet, but another fair question is why front of the pack runners drop after going wrong way. I win or I drop?
  
  Reply
  1. JEC says:
    
    January 9, 2017 at 5:37 am
    
    That was supposed to be a reply to Eric not Justin, sorry.
    
    Reply
  2. Corrine says:
    
    January 9, 2017 at 9:22 am
    
    I believe the drop speaks to their goals for the race. If your goal is to win a golden ticket and you are now 40mins back, better to drop and go to Black Canyons in a month maybe?
    
    Reply
    1. Jeff says:
      
      January 9, 2017 at 1:43 pm
      
      They had also run all the way back to the previous aid station which was 5 miles away, so in order to get back on course they would have had to run 5 miles back to where they took the wrong turn, adding 10 miles to their race. That would have been a very tough decision.
      
      Reply
Matthew Curry says:

January 9, 2017 at 6:10 am

At an ultra in the north of England a few years ago I and a few others took a wrong turn at a fork in the trail, turns out the sign was removed/sabotaged by someone, kind of annoying however I berated myself for not familiarising myself with the course route. A simple check of the map beforehand and it wouldn’t have been an issue (we were mid-packers, not sure how I would have felt if I was contending).

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1. eric schranz says:
  
  January 9, 2017 at 6:21 am
  
  Absolutely. It’s the responsibility of the runners to know the course, but my original (and erred) understanding was that they were directed to the wrong trail by a race official, and that’s an entirely different situation. I’m happy my info was wrong.
  
  Reply
  1. Amy says:
    
    January 9, 2017 at 10:16 am
    
    Agreed, but during a race, it’s pretty hard to tell who is a “race official” a.k.a. volunteer, and who is a spectator/volunteer.
    
    Reply
Ramon Martin says:

January 9, 2017 at 6:29 am

Hi Eric, polite note on the spelling of Ian’s name … its Corless. A few more plugs and you may be in for a free copy of his book “Running Beyond” (unless you already have it) 🙂

Reply
1. eric schranz says:
  
  January 9, 2017 at 6:32 am
  
  Thanks Ramon. Fixed. And yes, I already have the book. It’s fantastic.
  
  Reply
Some Lady says:

January 9, 2017 at 7:53 am

Yes the runners need to know the course but take a minute and think about it—someone is telling you to do something (who you assume is part of the race given their positioning on the trail) in the heat of a quick moving race –it’d be pretty easy to just go where they direct you. Also of note the Bandera website did not have accurate course data until the week’ish prior ( the course changed this year). My point is that it was a cluster fuck & perfect storm at that junction in the race. And sadly two great runners didnt have the opportunity to race to the finish (and neither has said much reguarding the situation). I know they take responsibility but the USATF tweet takes no responsibility for a lack of clary on several leaves at what is considered a pretty important race. It shows that there are ok, good and amazing RD’s. I suggest people take notes from Tropical John & Lisa.

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1. Some Lady says:
  
  January 9, 2017 at 7:59 am
  
  Please pardon my spelling and or grammar issues. Typed on my phone. 🙂
  
  Reply
2. JacobsA says:
  
  January 11, 2017 at 8:49 am
  
  Hey,
  
  Quick question, were you actually at the race? It was very well marked and there were a huge amount of “wrong way” signs in that direction. Additionally, it’s sometimes not as simple as having updated information on the site well in advance, especially when dealing with a park management that, for one reason or another, force you to modify races at the last minute. Yes, this includes less than a week in advance, things happen.
  
  Additionally, races can’t always account for almost extraneous factors, such as a random person in NO WAY affiliated with a race directing people off course.
  
  Reply
3. Chris McWatters says:
  
  January 11, 2017 at 12:23 pm
  
  Chris McWatters, Race Director here. The new course changes only changed how we went over some hills here and there. The overall course design wasn’t affected. That straightaway to a left hand turn and the lollipop course was the same as always. Map and Aid Station charts were all updated way ahead of time.
  I felt sick for the folks up front. After we placed 1500-2000 course markings and thousands of feet of caution tape, brought in over 150 volunteers and staff, etc to have a spectator mess those frontrunners up is gut wrenching. No reason to try to figure out who’s fault it is. It’s just a sucky situation that ill-affected two great dudes.
  
  Reply
Bob Shebest says:

January 9, 2017 at 8:54 am

I saw Mario come up as I was coming down this dubious intersection (though I did not know until after I dropped it was an intersection). On my way back up from the turn-around I see the chase pack was coming down. I was looking up at them as I came through the intersection. I knew Mario had gone this way. I was well aware from studying the course map that an intersection was coming soon to take me out onto the second loop. I was feeling great so I was pumped! I even heard the volunteer say, “100k runners this way!” so I was confident the man in question wasn’t just a spectator. I was following ribbon, closely. After a bit of not seeing the intersection, I started asking 100k runners coming the other direction if they saw Mario ahead, which they confirmed. Things started to feel more and more off. I pressed on, pushing harder after a cold morning being patient and biding my time. I was almost to the aid-station before a runner told me he saw Mario at there and that he—and I—were off course. I turned around and tore back up the trail until the harsh realization that I had effectively added 8mi to my race. I decided to drop and save my legs for another go at a Golden Ticket at Sean O’Brien on Feb 4. Bandera’s a great course and really suits me (maybe not the cold weather). I’d love to go back next year and make things right.

Reply
1. Jack says:
  
  January 9, 2017 at 11:27 am
  
  Bob, this just sucks for you and Mario. While nothing is guaranteed until you cross the tape, you guys clearly had the Golden Tickets within your grasp. In general, I agree with the sentiment that runners are responsible for studying and being up to date with the course and any last minute changes. This is different if someone who wasn’t even involved with the race told you guys to go the wrong way. In the heat of the moment when you’re trying to preserve your leads, you guys had no way of knowing that the person was not acting in an official capacity. Best of luck with SOB!
  
  Reply
  1. Bob Shebest says:
    
    January 9, 2017 at 12:38 pm
    
    Thanks for the thoughtful and fair words Jack. All things considered, I don’t think it unreasonable to have had a knowledgeable volunteer at this critical junction so close to the turn-around at the half-way, considering it’s a high stakes race, both as a Golden Ticket event and as the USATF 100k National Championship. Blood, sweat, and now a couple tears, were poured into my Bandera experience. Naturally, I’m crushed but The misdirection was indeed collaborative in nature. And I know we’ll all try harder next time. Now, just gotta move the hell on… 🙂
    
    Reply
    1. JacobsA says:
      
      January 11, 2017 at 8:53 am
      
      Hey Bob,
      
      Good seeing you out there, you were putting together a hell of a run and it really sucks what happened; hell I’d be pretty damn crushed too. The culprit in question still hasn’t been identified, but that person being an appointed volunteer has been ruled out. Very bizarre turn of events and hopefully your fitness and a dash of karma will make SOB a damn good race for you.
      
      Reply
nick says:

January 9, 2017 at 9:21 am

Running in the crater of haleakala is as close to running on the moon as you can get, amazing.

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name withheld to protect the innocent and guilty says:

January 9, 2017 at 11:50 am

I am an aid station captain at an ultra. This past year, two runners at another aid station were directed to go the wrong way. The runners should have run about 20 miles from that aid station, then come back to that same aid station and then proceeded to my aid station. Instead, they were directed by this volunteer, who was at the timing mat, to go to my aid station directly. When these runners got to my aid station, they realized the problem and were noticeably upset, thinking their race was over.

When we realized the issue, and that the issue was caused by someone standing at a timing mat with a clipboard (in other words, they were seemingly official), we shuttled the runners back to the offending aid station, so that they could run the “missed” 20 miles, and then shuttled them back to my aid station, so they could continue the course. Neither runner was in danger of winning anything. In addition, due to the nature of the course, the route they ran was more difficult, because the big climbs were now later in the race. Also, the shuttling added 45-50 minutes to their time. So, all decided that this was not unfair to the other runners in the race and that the runners did complete the entire course.

So, in our case, we decided that the “race” did bear some responsibility for the misdirection, even though the runners are supposed to know. Would this have been a different decision if this was one of the leaders? Possibly, but I cannot say for sure.

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SteelTownRunner says:

January 9, 2017 at 11:50 am

runner getting misdirected by volunteers appears to be fairly common at trail races. Certainly runners and race officials both bear more responsibility than a volunteer. It’s nonetheless unfortunate and frustrating when it happens.Reference

Reply
1. Andrew S. says:
  
  January 9, 2017 at 12:27 pm
  
  It certainly is. I was even once directed on a certain path with the assurance that I would still get a finish and not a DNF at a race by the assistant RD only to be DNF’d by the head RD upon finishing (a frustrating first and only DNF for me). I understand the difficulty of being an RD though and appreciate their impacts in the sport.
  
  Reply
Al says:

January 9, 2017 at 7:09 pm

It is interesting to see the discussion here – which seems to be less about a solution, but rather to assign blame?
Running in Australia (and elsewhere) – many ultra trails have little to NO marking, little to no aid-stations/volunteers – a runner is solely responsible for staying on track…
This is easily overcome with;
a map and compass; or,
a GPX watch with route loaded (it beeps when you go off course!); or,
a mobile phone with route loaded; or,
a combination of all 3
Running trail requires a level of respect, planning and preparation – confident that the folks that went off course know that it was on them, and will be far better equipped next time.

Reply
1. Andrew S. says:
  
  January 10, 2017 at 5:34 am
  
  Al, it’s the same deal here. The runner is ultimately responsible. However, American trails are typically marked so you’re foolish to carry extra weight like a phone if you can’t afford a GPS watch. I was already off course due to my own error, sorry if I wasn’t clear on that. It was a miscommunication between myself and the assistant RD that made me think I was still getting a finish. He wanted to get me to the finish line asap and I wanted to get on course to finish the race. I don’t think anyone here is “blaming” anyone as much as lamenting the fact that getting lost and DNFing in an ultra is a truly disheartening experience.
  
  Reply
  1. Al says:
    
    January 10, 2017 at 2:06 pm
    
    @Andrew S
    Mate, I get it – and not intending to shame anybody, more of a ‘huh?’ observation
    Having a race go south (pardon the pun) is a truly crap-tacular experience.
    
    Not sure I agree with you on the ‘extra’ weight observation or affordability though!
    A gpx capable watch (~85g or 3 ounces for a Fenix) is pretty standard cheap piece of kit for any trail runner who is also chewing through shoes/travel/etc ($$$)
    
    Reply
    1. Andrew S. says:
      
      January 11, 2017 at 3:25 pm
      
      All the cost adds up Al, but to each his own. You raise good points. My weight comment was regarding carrying a phone, which in turn would require a pack (which a lot of American elites don’t use).
      
      Reply
  2. eric schranz says:
    
    January 10, 2017 at 4:02 pm
    
    Andrew, I’d quibble with whether or not anyone is assigning blame. The tweet sent out certainly seemed to imply that it was Bob and Mario’s fault, and that’s an extremely disappointing stance.
    
    Reply
    1. Al says:
      
      January 10, 2017 at 4:38 pm
      
      @ Eric
      Not sure how insurance and liabilities work in the US (or elsewhere) for participants, which may play into this also…
      Recent race briefs I have had are pretty explicit for the onus on the runners AND take mandatory navigation aids for us to get insurance coverage
      That being said, with lower participation rates and support we have some very real threats to safety, maybe our views are a little biased. [a lot of stuff kills you in the bush mate, including yourself]
      
      Personally – if I received ‘advice’ on the course that was incorrect and was unsure (race didn’t require aids, low glco etc) I would be mightily p##sed – as your first assumption would be that ‘you are wrong and listen to the new direction’
      
      To blame the runner outright in this situation is poor form I reckon – perhaps some intervention in the preparation phases by RDs (GPX maps availability, gear checks etc) can help reduce the impact of those ‘helpers’?
      
      Reply
    2. Andrew S. says:
      
      January 11, 2017 at 5:46 am
      
      Right, Eric. I agree that nobody was assigning blame, as I said.
      
      Reply
Other Erich says:

January 9, 2017 at 9:59 pm

Good conversation about misdirections, in my opinion. However, I think we should just pave over those god-forsaken trails, add some big green signs and yellow paint, and drive down em in a new Ford Bronco with Google maps.

Reply
Sarah Lavender Smith says:

January 10, 2017 at 6:43 am

I’m on Day 11 of no alcohol. For me, it’s about regaining good sleep & nutrition. When I drink more than 2 drinks a night, I also overeat and do not sleep well. I needed to hit the reset button and regain moderation. It’s been liberating to de-link drinking wine/beer with enjoying dinner.Reference

Reply

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