Ultramarathon Daily News | Monday, Sep 17

Justin/IRF cover the weekend ultramarathon and trail results. Lots of European events, plus a few domestic races. What caught my interest:

Schlarb at Run Rabbit Run. Don’t ever count this dude out. Jason is a tough and patient runner who’ll mix it up with the best.
And speaking of RRR, Michele Yates, holy cow. That’s a pretty remarkable from some serious hip surgery this year.
Glencoe Skyline looks like an incredible event. Gorgeous! More on the big race from Ian Corless.

In case ya missed it, Eliud Kipchoge smashed the marathon world record yesterday in Berlin. His training has been fantastic, his build up predictable, but I’ve been watching this sport long enough to not look at every new record with a skeptical eye. Hope it’s all clean and legit.

It’s not the sedentary video gaming or the crap you’re feeing your kids…it’s the bleach wipes that are making adolescents fat.

How do you get your miles in?

I hope you caught our interview with #1 American at UTMB Chris Hammes. We had a free-flowing conversation about his love of vert, how he handles pain and discomfort, and what he wants out of this silly sport of ours. Super nice guy, and I’ll definitely be keeping an eye on him whenever he toes the line at tough races.

“I just kept going longer and at one point I wanted to run across the country,” McCarthy said.
Well, you know, we understand.

I always appreciate it when Sage pops into the LetsRun forums and offers his perspective. His latest post about SkyRunning and multi-surface runners is no exception.

Competitor lists the best road and trail shoes for F’18. While not a traditional Altra fan (they’ve just never felt right for me), I’m loving the Lone Peak 4s.

An aging midwesterner’s first attempt (and finish!) at a hundred miler.

14 Responses to "Ultramarathon Daily News | Monday, Sep 17"

Nicolas says:

September 17, 2018 at 12:33 pm

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/107136020/kenyan-marathoner-eliud-kipchoge-defies-logic-to-push-limits-of-human-physiology

“There were, understandably, raised eyebrows that he could carve so much out of Kimetto’s time. For what it is worth, Kipchoge has always been outspoken against the doping cases that have stalked his homeland. This was one day, perhaps, when the awe deserved to outweigh the suspicion.”

Eric, I understand where you’re coming from. Of course it’s always possible for any pro to eschew doping controls. But he’s never failed a drug test and lives like a monk. Given all the evidence we have about him, it’s not a reasonable suspicion. If you have any evidence – besides: he’s Kenyan – please adduce. Until then, admirers of the sport would like to be in unadulterated awe at the performance. If incredible feats require suspicion then you should be skeptical of many more feats in ultrarunning and you don’t seem to be.

Reply
1. Will says:
  
  September 17, 2018 at 2:43 pm
  
  When someone crushes a ultra CR, chances are it is a combination of a strong athlete specializing their training for a specific course in a way that not many have done before. For such a substantial chunk of time to be taken out of the marathon WR, an event that millions of elite athletes have tried to optimize for, it is inherently suspicious. This is the largest chunk of time for the marathon WR to be reduced since the 60s. The gap should be getting smaller, not larger.
  
  Everything about Kipchoge appears to be on the up and up, but the math is what warrants suspicion.
  
  Reply
  1. Nicolas says:
    
    September 17, 2018 at 3:23 pm
    
    Is Paula Radcliffe’s WR suspicious? Honest question. Kilian’s CRs at HR100? Walmsley’s WS100 CR? Was the Nike breaking 2 attempt premised on dope? Kipchoge’s performance here and there are consistent. He’s just one of a kind. By definition outliers exhibit ‘abnormal’ performances. That’s why they’re outliers. Now, even if some suspicion were always warranted, this is just not the time, person, way to do it. Find something about Kipchoge that makes this performance hard to explain. Absent evidence give the guy credit.
    
    Reply
    1. Will says:
      
      September 17, 2018 at 4:08 pm
      
      For the most part I totally agree with you. My main point was that you are more likely to seem times on a specific ultra course that would qualify as an “extreme outlier” than in a road marathon. You have way more data points in road marathons.
      
      It isn’t fair to automatically assume that Kipchoge is doping, and I should have made that more clear in my first response. But it is also not true that “if incredible feats require suspicion then you should be skeptical of many more feats in ultrarunning and you don’t seem to be”. The marathon outlier warrants more suspicion based on the math.
      
      Reply
      1. Nicolas says:
        
        September 17, 2018 at 4:21 pm
        
        Ok, thanks for clarifying. Agree with your point. The number of elite marathoners at any given major marathon is not that high though. We should expect some variability. But I take your point. I just think it makes Kipchoge’s perf all the more admirable rather than suspect. Different mindset. But some seem to know this “silly sport” better than others…
Des says:

September 17, 2018 at 1:07 pm

Eric, are you going to tarnish every great performance or new world record with a “hope it’s all clean and legit”? It’s almost like you’re wishing athletes are doping the way you go on about it…

Reply
1. eric schranz says:
  
  September 19, 2018 at 9:28 am
  
  I can think he’s clean and hope he’s clean at the same time. I’m also not the type of person to believe everything without asking all the questions first.
  
  Reply
msharafinski says:

September 17, 2018 at 1:49 pm

For what it’s worth, Eric, you’re just saying what all but a few (apparently) are thinking. Anyone who isn’t at least a bit suspicious of high profile records/performances in modern endurance sports just hasn’t been paying attention.

Reply
1. Nelson says:
  
  September 17, 2018 at 4:05 pm
  
  Then maybe start questioning ultra performances as well. For instance, Walmsley is so dominant in the US… I just hope he’s clean and legit.
  
  Eliud Kipchoge puts a kind of dedication to his training that no ultra runner can conceive, and has the best training possible, he’s not some dude playing by ear in the mountains, having a ton of easy runs. Look at his career, look at his training, it’s all there.
  
  Reply
  1. Nicolas says:
    
    September 17, 2018 at 4:12 pm
    
    Exactly. The lack of self awareness from the ultra community is baffling sometimes.
    
    Reply
  2. msharafinski says:
    
    September 18, 2018 at 1:29 pm
    
    What makes you think I’m not skeptical of Jim? I’m not questioning the feasibility of Kipchoge’s performance based on his resume and training. I witnessed his accomplishment and hope that it is legitimate, with the understanding that sometimes things are too good to be true. I am not sure why this would offend you or anyone else.
    
    Reply
    1. Ling says:
      
      September 19, 2018 at 7:42 am
      
      Nelson probably wasn’t speaking about you specifically. But if I look back at the daily news when Jim broke the Western States record, I don’t recall Eric making a note that he “hopes Jim is clean and legit” and that we should look at that run with a “skeptical eye”.
      
      Reply
      1. eric schranz says:
        
        September 19, 2018 at 9:26 am
        
        A few point:
        
        One, Jim doesn’t come from a country with an abysmal record of doping in a sport that’s consistently disappointed even its most ardent fans. Am I saying most Kenyans are dopers? Of course not. But if a Kenyan dude came on to the scene and smashed the record ay WS would I write “I hope he’s clean and legit”? Of course.
        
        Two, I published an anonymous editorial/letter that called on Jim to undergo a full panel of testing. (FWIW, the thread went sideways and I chose to remove it.)
        
        And three, many of you argue that money is what’s causing doping in T&F and cycling and that’s why we need to keep big purses and money out of MUT events. There’s not a lot of money in this sport, and yes, while we do have our dopers, I think we’d all agree–without any testing to refer to–that the frequency is significantly less than in road/track running. Doping is expensive and I’d assume most of our elites couldn’t or wouldn’t afford it.
        
        Listen, I think EK is clean. His coach and manager’s reputations are spotless, his workouts and consistency all makes sense, and everything else we know about him (save for his home country) is legit, but again, I’ve been watching this sport for way too long and been disappointed far too many times to not face each new record with a healthy dose of skepticism. To not so is following something blindly.
Danny says:

September 18, 2018 at 10:14 am

I can’t believe this lets run forum. Disappointing. What a bunch of tools. Real trail runners support each other. Just a bunch of this guys better than that guy crap, what’s technical or not, whatever! Can’t you just be happy it was a cool race? Why shouldn’t a runner elite or not do whatever race they feel like? It’s total BS someone like Sage or anyone for that matter would have to justify why they ran a particular race or didn’t have “success” in the eyes of some random internet critic. If a race makes you excited do it, no matter what place you think you are going to come in, just enjoy the damn thing its FUN!

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