Ultramarathon Daily News | Monday, Oct 23

Ultramarathon and trail running results from this weekend. Notable to me:

Jim’s DNF at Diagonale des Fous. It’s clear that Jim’s struggling to find his groove at longer races. Either strategy he employs (holding back, a la UTMB, or running from the front like at WS100 or this weekend) is not working effectively right now when we’re talking 100+ milers. If you were Jim’s coach, how would you counsel him?
More on DdF: Here’s Liza’s report from her 2nd DNF ever.
Dewalle’s win at the VK champs after getting busted for doping.
Patrick Caron‘s 13:50 at Ghost Train 100. Dayum! I’m having Patrick on the show today, so stay tuned.
The ongoing battle at Big’s Backyard Ultra. As of this writing, they’re starting hour 49 of this uniquely formatted race. For some historical context, here’s my interview with co-winner Jeremy Ebel from 2014.
Not mentioned: Mike Wardian ran 250 miles across the Gobi Desert two weeks ago. On Saturday, he ran a 2:39 at Baltimore Marathon, then yesterday ran a 2:54 at Marine Corps Marathon. There are outliers, then there’s Iron Mike...oh and this guy.

Interesting: A day in the life of philosopher/ultramarathon stud Sabrina Little. We chatted with Sabrina (nee Moran) five years ago right here.

For whatever reason, it’s cathartic for me to read DNF reports right now. Here’s a good and honest report from a DNF at Grindstone.

Listicle: The five best exercise/running habits for those of us over 40. From what I know, Wardian does all of these.

“Measuring distance and taking time is something white men invented, for we only chase after the fastest of the group.”

–How some US ultramarathon runners are connecting with native tribes in Mexico. No, this is not a repeat from 2009.

WADA removed CBD and cannabidiol from the list of banned substances. THC still banned in competition.

The Best Run News Show: Creepy IG accounts, BoxChallenge, and more.

I host a beer party each year and the most recent event was on Saturday night. Twenty four people each brought beer, I blind poured them to everyone, and contestants had to guess what they were drinking based on a list. Fun times! We had everything from MGD to home-brews to Focal Banger. Winner got 17 out of 24 correct.

Science…and why you shouldn’t always believe studies and the garbage that comes out of them.

When the race is 240 miles, the video can be almost 2 hours long. Cool report from Moab.

Race leaders follow lead motorcycle as he takes them off course for two minutes. Meanwhile, unknown Italian dude sweeps in for the win at the Venice Marathon. Since it’s Italy, I’m pictuing mafioso sitting in a smoke filled back room of a restaurant taking bets on the race when this…unfortunate?….event happens.

How often do you shower? Here’s an interesting project by a runner who stopped taking showers and using lotions, oils, and deodorants.

100 mile data geeks, get ready to have an unproductive Monday: Check out this spreadsheet of 100 mile ultramarathons set up by Scott Simcox. It’s got complete Strava files, info on whether it’s a repeating/loop course, images of the buckle, and more. Scott is hoping that others can help fill in any missing data or race info. Can you help?

Quick get-to-know-ya interview with Rob Krar.

35 Responses to "Ultramarathon Daily News | Monday, Oct 23"

Guy Cheney says:

October 23, 2017 at 7:51 am

Don’t run Diagonale des Fous a few weeks after a hard effort at UTMB. That seems pretty straightforward….

Reply
1. Reporter says:
  
  October 23, 2017 at 8:13 am
  
  It does, and I would tend to agree, but Andrea Huser’s impressive win is… a counterexample? the exception that proves the rule? That said, I do think Walmsley needs rest for the entire remainder of the season.
  
  Reply
  1. Sabine says:
    
    October 23, 2017 at 9:03 am
    
    The way how Andrea Huser executes a race is completely different from the way how Jim Walmsley does race. She starts rather slowly. At the Diagonale des Fous she was about Position 80-100 at the first aid stations. Then ever so slightly she moves up – position by position. This – in my view – is intelligent and sustainable racing. And Walmsley didn’t hold back at UTMB. He ran the first segments even faster than Francois and Kilian. But they could sustain their effort in the later stages of the race, while Jim couldn’t.
    
    Reply
    1. Reporter says:
      
      October 23, 2017 at 12:10 pm
      
      I agree. I was not suggesting they had similar race strategies and skills. I was simply responding to Guy’s point about recovery.
      
      Reply
Nelson says:

October 23, 2017 at 8:13 am

Walmsley didn’t hold back at UTMB, he ran with the lead group under CR pace.

Is he still taking in 500-600kcal/hour? Science says his body won’t digest that much carbohydrate per hour, so that could have something to do with his gut issues.

I doubt his fitness is lacking. He doesn’t seem the strongest mentally, though.

Advice? Enter some low profile 100s and try to run a consistent effort to learn how to properly pace that distance. It wouldn’t hurt to run side by side with an experienced 100-mile runner who Jim can learn from.

Reply
1. R. Reill says:
  
  October 23, 2017 at 10:22 am
  
  I agree with you here, especially about the fueling. The “long and short” of my opinion is that the athletes (like Jim W. and Sage Canaday) who are still holding onto their routine of higher carbohydrate eating patterns are suffering from more stomach distress than those who have a higher fat intake (like Bronco Billy and Zach Bitter).
  
  What really compounds this stomach distress is that many of the higher-carb athletes, like those mentioned above, also routinely indulge in more “junk foods”. Go onto Sage’s Instagram and you’ll find multiple pictures of vegan doughnuts and it is no secret that Jim indulges frequently.
  
  I’m not trying to call anyone out for what they eat, but I find that just like you say, it is not that the athlete’s muscles are failing on them, it is their guts. The best way to strengthen the gut is to give it proper nutrition that is more specific to the stress that they are putting that organ through.
  
  Any thoughts?
  
  Reply
  1. Nelson says:
    
    October 23, 2017 at 11:00 am
    
    I’m not speaking against a high-carb diet and in favour of a high-fat one (as a matter of fact, I think high carb is the way to go in distance running), but pointing out that research seems to show that you can’t digest more than 300-350kcal of combined carbohydrate per hour. If Jim aims to take twice that ammount, as he’s said in interviews, it’s going to cause trouble if the race is long/hard enough.
    
    Junk foods? I don’t think that’s the problem. 100 milers used to be raced and won on candy bars and coke.
    
    In Sage’s case, I’d fault his training. He’s super talented, and seems like a very nice guy, but I often don’t understand his choice of workouts. I think he was better prepared when he entered the sport right out of marathon training than he is nowadays. I really wish Sage got a coach who’d help him fulfill his ultra potential. A few years ago I thought he could be the first American male to win UTMB.
    
    Reply
    1. R.Reill says:
      
      October 23, 2017 at 3:32 pm
      
      Thanks for your feedback!
      
      I get your comment about the candy bars and coke on race day. However, now that athletes are looking to push the sport further and run faster times off the lead, more attention needs to be put towards the diet aspect. My view is that maybe the GI issues would clear if those athletes could rely more on endogenous energy and not loading their stomachs with simple sugars like you are saying. I’m not solely advocating a high fat diet necessarily, although it is a way to help the body use its own endogenous energy. There are many other ways to help the body get in tune on it’s own resources.
      
      Reply
      1. Nelson says:
        
        October 23, 2017 at 5:24 pm
        
        I get what you mean, but science so far says that’s not how the human body works.
        
        A high-fat diet doesn’t lead to an improvement in our ability to produce energy from fat.
        
        The body burns both fat and carbs all of the time, in different proportion depending on the intensity of the activity we’re doing. So we need to have both sources of energy, and while our fat storages are plenty, glycogen stores are limited. You either consume carbs or compromise your performance.
        
        Besides, the brain needs glucose.
        
        Most successful ultrarunners are able to eat frequently during their races. The gut can deal with it.
  2. Reporter says:
    
    October 23, 2017 at 12:16 pm
    
    Read Koop’s training book for reasonable doubts about the wisdom of the fat adaptation fad. What you need to train your GI system for is intake of carbs, because that’s you’re gonna need to be able to process efficiently on the go. Anecdotes of a couple elites deluded into thinking that fat adaptation is what makes them better do not support a case. We could find an order of magnitude more athletes on regular/high carb diets performing just as well if not better. Seriously, you think vegan donuts are the problem, and bullet proof coffee a silver bullet?
    
    Reply
    1. R.Reill says:
      
      October 23, 2017 at 3:50 pm
      
      Thanks for your input Reporter,
      
      What I am advocating for is for training the body to better use its own endogenous resources so that GI distress can be avoided from bombarding the stomach with a lot of sugar while trying to run. I don’t doubt how carbs are extremely efficient.
      
      My view is imagining your stomach like your car, just because you keep putting gas in the tank doesn’t mean that the car will go further or faster. Eventually, as you keep packing fuel in the tank, it will spill out (analogous to vomiting or diarrhea on race day). What you can do for your car is teach it how to better use that fuel source that is already in the tank. This can be done through one’s training program and treating food like another variable to be measured and tested.
      
      Also, there are many ways to teach the body how to run better on its own endogenous sources of energy and increasing fats is just one way to do that. Another could be implementing intermittent fasting protocols.
      
      I’ve personally never put butter in my coffee and certainly don’t think that alone is a silver bullet, but thanks for the feedback
      
      Cheers!
      
      Reply
      1. Nelson says:
        
        October 23, 2017 at 5:28 pm
        
        If you’re interested, the Science of Ultra podcast has some very good episodes on carbs, fats, and running nutrition.
  3. Ben Zuehlsdorf says:
    
    October 23, 2017 at 12:28 pm
    
    Who really knows for sure I suppose but I don’t believe the high-fat intake, during truly mountainous ultras, is the way to go. Zach is a tremendous athlete and wicked fast on flat ultras. However, he has not transitioned that success to the mountains.
    
    And I believe Bronco Billy consumes plenty of carbs on race day?
    
    Perhaps though if Jim were to ‘train’ on a higher fat diet and then consume plenty of carbs on race day he might have more success?
    
    If Jim is really trying to consume 500-600 calories/hour early on that very well might be an issue. Assuming he’s being truthful when claiming it’s his gut that is letting him down (and not say his brain or legs past the 100k point).
    
    Reply
  4. Tim Tollefson says:
    
    October 23, 2017 at 2:23 pm
    
    For what it’s worth, I pretty much have a high junk low nutritional diet (HJLN?)
    
    Also, a funny side note; one meal in Courmayeur, Browning was telling us about all the benefits of a HFLC diet while eating a plate of meat, as we all dined on pastas and bread. The next morning he had food poisoning. I joked with him, “you know what I’ve never had food poisoning from? Carbs” 🙂
    
    Reply
Sam Bosworth says:

October 23, 2017 at 8:15 am

train less race less and try to peak. eat less sugar

Reply
Sabrina says:

October 23, 2017 at 8:40 am

Thanks for posting, Eric!

Reply
Ben says:

October 23, 2017 at 9:26 am

If I were Jim’s coach I too would tell him:
1) Lets go back to targeting a 50 miler in the spring (and not race TNF 50 next month)
2) Take a month of total downtime now. Then we’ll start building back up slowly.
3) After a successful 50 miler (Sonoma?) and when you get your confidence back we’ll target a 100 miler again but it will be low key and you MUST pace yourself off of someone like Tollefson, Sharman, Browning, etc. Guys who know how to execute the distance.

Reply
1. eric schranz says:
  
  October 23, 2017 at 10:33 am
  
  Agree completely.
  
  Reply
2. Sabine says:
  
  October 23, 2017 at 3:11 pm
  
  You hit the nail on the head!
  
  Reply
erin says:

October 23, 2017 at 9:33 am

A Kenyan friend of mine tweeted yesterday that it was intentional, and I thought there was no way. No that I see that video………..

Reply
AJW says:

October 23, 2017 at 9:52 am

If I were Jim’s coach I would have him focus on meticulous race day nutrition wth 16-24 oz of fluid per hour, 50 mg sodium per liter of fluid, and 240-260 calories an hour in a variety of different forms. Then, for effort, I would encourage him to keep his heart rate at or below 150 beats per minute until he has reached 90 miles.

Reply
Francois says:

October 23, 2017 at 10:41 am

rather than talk about jim (coz I’m tired of reading about Jim when so many amazing things happen at those races that are completely hidden by Jim’s attempts and failures, and also because he probably needs to be a bit more in the shadows for his own sake) I’d point out the winner Benoit Girondel and the interviews he’s given after the race. He was completely exhausted after Sans Soucis (where Jim dropped), so much so that he seriously considered stopping and waiting for 2nd place antoine guillon to finish with him. A day after his win, he was still only talking about the pain and the effort it represented. He acknowledged it, admitted that he dug further than reasonable, and that this race was hard (it is). It takes guts both literally and figuratively, that’s the trick. Not before the race in front of the media, but during. Last year Francois D’Haene had more than an hour lead at the top of Maido, and finished with less than 30′ and crying because it had been so hard for him to rally the finish line. The guy who finished behind him (Antoine Guillon, see a pattern?) always starts easy and works his way up. Take his pace chart, add whatever % you’re comfortable with to his splits, learn it, live it. This guy knows.

Reply
1. Brian says:
  
  October 23, 2017 at 11:38 am
  
  This! This is awesome, thanks for sharing, Francois.
  
  Reply
2. Sabine says:
  
  October 23, 2017 at 3:20 pm
  
  Francois, very well said! I am also tired of having Jim’s attempts and failures in the headlines, while other – more intelligent – racers and runners are disregarded. Antoine Guillon is such runner. The same with Tim Tollefson at UTMB, who brought home the best 2017 result. But who got the most interviews and talks? Jim Walmsley …
  
  Reply
  1. Francois says:
    
    October 25, 2017 at 7:40 am
    
    I personally tested the “Antoine pace chart * (1+ x%)” last year at DDF (with x=100+) as I figured it was smarter than picking an average of finishers around my goal time (based on their splits they all seemed to go out fast and fade quickly and dramatically). Worked nicely (with the exception maybe of the the time spent at aid stations and a one hour nap)
    
    Reply
John says:

October 23, 2017 at 10:49 am

Our sample size for Jim’s 100 milers is 4….4 races. If you analyze those you see:

WS100 2016 – Wrong turn
WS100 2017 – Blow up at Mile 74ish. trying to stick to the 14 hour pre race target didn’t help.
UTMB 2017 – Didn’t blow up. Sorry everybody…having a rough patch, rallying and finishing 5th at one of the most competitive 100 milers ever is NOT blowing up.
Diagonal De Fous 2017 – Less than 2 months from a hard UTMB.

I’d probably tell him to rest. That’s about it.

Reply
1. Ben Zuehlsdorf says:
  
  October 23, 2017 at 12:44 pm
  
  My commentary, because I enjoy this stuff:
  
  WS100 2016 – Wrong turn (and then giving up mentally to walk it in when the win was off the table?)
  WS100 2017 – Blow up at Mile 74ish. trying to stick to the 14 hour pre race target didn’t help. (again, mental mistake and/or not respecting the conditions / history before him?)
  UTMB 2017 – Didn’t blow up. Sorry everybody…having a rough patch, rallying and finishing 5th at one of the most competitive 100 milers ever is NOT blowing up. (Agree. This was an awesome race for him. Truly world class.I mean that.)
  Diagonal De Fous 2017 – Less than 2 months from a hard UTMB. (So…? Mental mistake? Bravado? Starting the race with a 30′ lead at 98k on supposedly tired legs was a smart decision?)
  
  This is easy for me to say being a mid-packer and behind a keyboard but what’s frustrating to watch in Jim’s case is that it appears he is not learning from his mistakes and/or taking full advantage of the talent he was given. He clearly has every tool in the toolbox to be a world class 100 miler runner but it appears, from the outside looking in, that he’s not actually willing to be humble for even 1-2 hours in a race before needing to assert himself off the front. Why?
  
  He’s arguably 1 out of 4 now at the 100 mile distance. And I’m being generous with that ‘1’ as he again raced off the front and couldn’t sit behind the legends of the sport. We all know he is a total beast at the 100k and below distances. He doesn’t need to prove his running chops in a 100 mile race by leading it. If he really wants to impress people now – win a 100 mile race by being patient and methodical.
  
  And for goodness sake – if the win is no longer in the cards and your gut gives up on you – stop, rest, and regroup. There’s a few runners out there who seem to DNF when the win is no longer in the cards and I sure hope Jim is not turning in to that guy or gal.
  
  Reply
Pete says:

October 23, 2017 at 11:04 am

This spreadsheet is awesome! Anyone know of any ultrarunners who’ve completed a 100-miler (or longer) in all 50 states?

Reply
1. eric schranz says:
  
  October 23, 2017 at 11:10 am
  
  Hmmm, offhand I don’t know of anyone. I couldn’t even name anyone who’s done a 50M in every state.
  
  Reply
  1. MB24 says:
    
    October 25, 2017 at 5:26 am
    
    I would think Wardian would be really close to that for the 50M distance. I’m working on it for the 100M distance. Clicking off 3 this year and only have 38 more states to go! So I’ll get back to you for that interview in about 12-14 years!
    
    Reply
    1. eric schranz says:
      
      October 25, 2017 at 7:26 am
      
      I’ll be waiting.
      
      Reply
Brian says:

October 23, 2017 at 1:29 pm

I ran Ghost Train this weekend with Patrick Caron, there were about 300 people on the starting line, I lined up just to his left, and by the time we hit the trail about 1/3 of a mile into the race he was out of sight! He crushed it!

Reply
Bill says:

October 23, 2017 at 2:35 pm

I fuel my ultras entirely on coconut oil and grasshopper bars. The critters do not take me out of ketosis.

Reply
Dwight Rabe says:

October 23, 2017 at 5:50 pm

This is definitely one of the most interesting URP News comment threads in a while!

Devil’s Advocate…if you only looked at your ultra racing career as a finite, short term gig with excellent sponsor support to travel to the far ends of the earth, wouldn’t you go for it and race your butt off?

I suspect this knowledge factors into Jim’s racing logic. Eric, aren’t we due for another Walmsley interview?

Reply
1. Nick says:
  
  October 24, 2017 at 8:30 am
  
  Hum… maybe not until we get interviews with all those we’re complaining Jim is undeservedly detracting all the attention from?
  
  Reply

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